tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-601679244189532906.post2982922978292836397..comments2023-10-20T10:39:34.144-04:00Comments on Baseball & The Boogie Down: Who's The Better Pitcher - Part 2Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-601679244189532906.post-4463390466416041482008-12-02T16:25:00.001-05:002008-12-02T16:25:00.001-05:00Ok, Jboogie, so you are making the argument that G...Ok, Jboogie, so you are making the argument that Glavine won Cy's against a bunch of "chumps" like Steve Avery, Jose Rijo, John Smiley, et al...but Mussina LOST Cy's to guys like Pat Hentgen ('96)and lost to David Cone in '94 with nearly identical #'s...he even finished behind Jimmy Key in the voting that year...so what does that tell us? That the writers who vote obviously don't think that much of Mussina. You can't keep throwing up the argument about the competition between pitchers in any given year...my main point here is that 300 wins is automatic, because after Randy Johnson, there really aren't many guys out there who will pitch well enough for long enough to get there again. I'm not being "foolish" basing my argument on Cy's and rings, I'm basing my argument on how I believe the BBWA seems to vote! Your boy's in some trouble there is all I'm saying. If Mussina does get in he'll probably be wearing an Orioles cap anyway since he won 147 games with the O's and 123 with the Yanks..Oh, did I also mention that he has never, ever won any major awards and only led his league in wins, shutouts, winning %, and lowest walks once each, while Glavine led the NL in wins 5 times (all 20 win seasons mind you) to go along with his 2 Cy's, 1 ring, and the WS MVP in 2005. Face!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-601679244189532906.post-56405588974211089572008-12-02T16:25:00.000-05:002008-12-02T16:25:00.000-05:00Ok, Jboogie, so you are making the argument that G...Ok, Jboogie, so you are making the argument that Glavine won Cy's against a bunch of "chumps" like Steve Avery, Jose Rijo, John Smiley, et al...but Mussina LOST Cy's to guys like Pat Hentgen ('96)and lost to David Cone in '94 with nearly identical #'s...he even finished behind Jimmy Key in the voting that year...so what does that tell us? That the writers who vote obviously don't think that much of Mussina. You can't keep throwing up the argument about the competition between pitchers in any given year...my main point here is that 300 wins is automatic, because after Randy Johnson, there really aren't many guys out there who will pitch well enough for long enough to get there again. I'm not being "foolish" basing my argument on Cy's and rings, I'm basing my argument on how I believe the BBWA seems to vote! Your boy's in some trouble there is all I'm saying. If Mussina does get in he'll probably be wearing an Orioles cap anyway since he won 147 games with the O's and 123 with the Yanks..Oh, did I also mention that he has never, ever won any major awards and only led his league in wins, shutouts, winning %, and lowest walks once each, while Glavine led the NL in wins 5 times (all 20 win seasons mind you) to go along with his 2 Cy's, 1 ring, and the WS MVP in 2005. Face!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-601679244189532906.post-43355173185985808802008-12-01T16:15:00.000-05:002008-12-01T16:15:00.000-05:00LWJ- How can you say Moose wasn't a better pitcher...LWJ- <BR/><BR/>How can you say Moose wasn't a better pitcher when he beats Glavine in EVERY stat category based on a CAREER average. It would be one thing if we were comparing 5 years to 22, but we're comparing 18 to 22, so both have a pretty good base to draw from.<BR/> <BR/>If you're basing your argument that Glavine was better on his career win total, his 2 Cys and his 1 ring, than you're just being foolish. <BR/><BR/>Glavine's win total is a by product of playing 22 seasons. He should have more wins than Moose. He does after all have 146 more starts under his belt. And a lot of chumps have won WS rings and Cy Young awards. There's more to it than that. Look at the SPs that Glavine beat in 1991: John Smiley, Jose Rijo, Dennis Martinez, Steve Avery and Andy Benes. His 98 win was a little more legit as he beat out Kevin Brown, Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, and AL Leiter. But if you ask me, the award should have gone to Brown.<BR/><BR/>Glavine received CY votes 6 times in his 22 year career. Moose rec'd votes 9 times in 18 seasons. Moose was among the best more often the Glavine. Glavine must have had some pretty mediocre seasons considering Moose's #s are better. Getting into the HOF should be based on their entire career, not a smattering of good/great seasons. <BR/><BR/>And I do think Glavine is a 1st ballot HOFer. Just as I do Moose.J-Boogiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08358799839634033994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-601679244189532906.post-22167644427241974662008-12-01T15:05:00.000-05:002008-12-01T15:05:00.000-05:00Oh no,no,no....I see the statistical average over ...Oh no,no,no....I see the statistical average over the 162 games, but we both know that is not what gets players into the HOF. The writers take into account things like CY's...of which Glavine has 2, Mussina zero...also, even though it should not count, a World Series ring somehow matters to the writers. You can't just take the 162 game averages of guys and simply state that because of these averages one pitcher is better than the other. Remember, Glavine's first 2 years he was 9-21 pitching for what may have been the worst teams ever to see a major league diamond. BUT, Glavine made 10 all star teams, and has a respectible 13 post season wins!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-601679244189532906.post-54188581562679057852008-12-01T09:19:00.000-05:002008-12-01T09:19:00.000-05:00You have convinced me.You have convinced me.nutballgazettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15953156266049373818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-601679244189532906.post-88973727595060587392008-11-28T23:30:00.000-05:002008-11-28T23:30:00.000-05:00Thanks for the tip on using ERA+. I'd seen it lis...Thanks for the tip on using ERA+. I'd seen it listed and kind of had an idea what it was, but wasn't 100%. For those readingt he comments, Moose's ERA+ was 123. Glavine's was only 118.<BR/><BR/>And yeah, Pedro definitely has 'em both beat.J-Boogiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08358799839634033994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-601679244189532906.post-62199160748712673042008-11-28T23:09:00.000-05:002008-11-28T23:09:00.000-05:00Pedro, thats who! :) Also, try using ERA+ rather...Pedro, thats who! :) Also, try using ERA+ rather than base ERA, it makes adjustments based on league average on its own, and also adjusts for ballpark. <BR/><BR/><BR/>http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com